Question: Are we looking for a restored church in this latter day?
If so, what will thatchurch look like? Will it resemble the church in the book of Acts?
My short answer is, “No” for both questions, but now I’ll tell you my reasons.
Please forgive my, “Doctrinal ignorance” in this area. To me, a kid growing up in the body, the thought of a restored church didn’t seem all that important because Jesus is with us now. To my thinking, why would Christ RESTORE a church when His people ARE the Church? We don’t need to be restored, we need to be renewed.
2 Corinthians 4:7
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
2 Corinthians 4:16
...though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.
People are, “Trying to be the Church” instead of letting themselves, “Be the church”. I think, “Being perfect” or, “Entering into His rest” are very similar, if not the same. A state of being does not need effort or works, but just the existence of just, “Being”, produces both effort and work when there is the breath of life. Similarly, faith and works cannot be separated in God’s people, because they have everlasting life. John 3:16
James 2:18
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
I treated the verse in Haggai as just a statement of observation about a physical temple being built in Haggai’s time, not a prophecy about end times. Feel free to think of me as a novice in this area, because I am, but even a novice will have very pertinent questions.
If one is seeking to justify self-gaining glory, Biblically, the topic of a Restored Church seems to be a complicated compilation of theories that culminate in figuring out when Jesus will return, so that our church can be better than another... we are God’s chosen people above all other churches. To me, it seems an exercise in the development of pride and self-justification (for a separate existence), and pride is the first thing listed that God hates in Proverbs 6:16-17.
The fruit of this doctrine does not produce love, I cannot see God viewing the mission of His church this way. Wasn’t it said that no man will know the day or hour He will return? Matthew 24:36-37
As a professed novice in the subject area of a, “Restored Church”, my first question would be:
Is the theory of a restored church solely based on these few verses in Haggai?
Because if it is, doing a jump to the hypothesis of an Early Reign and a Latter Reign Church defies even the most convoluted forms of mental Yoga. The theory doesn’t even seem to consider the context.
Wikipedia
Haggai was a Hebrew prophet during the building of the Second Temple in Jerusalem, and one of the twelve minor prophets in the Hebrew Bible and the author of the Book of Haggai. He is known for his prophecy in 520 BCE, commanding the Jews to rebuild the Temple.
The text would seem to indicate that Haggai was referring to the difference between the first and second temple during the time period in which he lived. If living today, Haggai would probably say, “Man, this new temple is going to be SO much better than the last one!” How did his statement turn into justification for a group of people, a church, to rule over their brother? Did God ever give dominion of a man to his brother? Didn’t Paul set the record straight when he said, “...I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ”. 1 Corinthians 11:3.
As for the terms, “Early and Latter Reign”, they aren’t even in the Bible... so who’s doing the reigning? If the Early Church reigned... over whom did they reign, and what did that look like?
Another thing... if we believe we are supposed to be better than the Early Church and surpass them (If you take that as the meaning of Haggai’s statement), why then do we {unsuccessfully} try to emulate them at all? To try to be just like them? If the Early Church was already a perfect church, then what is better than perfect? What kind of extra prestige will the Latter Church get? How does one balance prestige with being a servant like Christ was?
I see why the body’s doctrine of, “Perfection” is so important. If you cannot exceed the glory of the Early Church by using them as masters of the template for a successful church, if that won’t work, then we’ll have to become PERFECT to be like Jesus. After all, Jesus had more glory than anyone, and that’s what we were promised in Haggai. Wasn’t it?
Luke 6:40
The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.
Weren’t people in the Early Church disciples of Christ too? Do we believe they became perfect? How then is the glory of the Latter Church going to exceed the glory of the Early Church?
It can’t... and the Bible doesn’t say that.
If your heart is still set on the glory of being in the, “Latter Reign”, by having more glory than your brother, I have to ask a question:
Is there a hierarchy of men over men over men implied in God’s order? Or, was that system of hierarchy, power, control, accountability and privilege established on the plain of Shinar at the Tower of Babel? That was the very first time humanity was organized into a cohesive unit with one purpose, but under man... an affront to God.
It’s interesting how the Tower of Babel links to God’s people at the Battle of Jericho in that the, “Mantle of Shinar”, that, “Goodly Babylonish Garment” a garment that was designed to make someone look good in the eyes of others, was one of the things that caused Israel to become a curse. That covering represented the Tower of Babel where things were done decently and in order under the covering of other men above them, but with men as the head instead of Christ. It was one of three things that caused Israel to become a curse in the eyes of God. (Babylon the city where Nimrod ruled did not even exist for another 600-800 years.)
Joshua 6:18
And ye, in any wise keep yourselves from the accursed thing, lest ye make yourselves accursed, when ye take of the accursed thing, and make the camp of Israel a curse, and trouble it.
Paul fought against desire for a Goodly Babylonish Garment when he spoke of a man having his head covered. Nothing should come in-between a man and Christ (his head), his pastor and the ministers above him are not his head.
1 Corinthians 11:3-4
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
A Babylonish Garment blocks the glory of God in that it keeps men children and does not let them grow to maturity. If there is a system of order in place that has men over men over men, you need to read the following scripture:
Revelation 13:18
Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
Man over man over man.
6
6
6
Adam named the animals. If, “Name” in the Bible means, “Nature”, then it is the nature of man to lead or be led by other men as their head... a fight for dominion, the mark of a beast. It seems any organization that has this model as part of its leadership is not God’s desire for His people. Be it politics, business, sports or any hierarchy of men, it is a defining characteristic of the human society.
A Babylonish Garment is not the only thing that caused Israel to fail after Jericho. Achan also took 200 shekels of silver.
Joshua 7:21
When I saw among the spoils a goodly Babylonish garment, and two hundred shekels of silver, and a wedge of gold of fifty shekels weight, then I coveted them, and took them; and, behold, they are hid in the earth in the midst of my tent, and the silver under it.
The silver was the foundation of the sin against God, but it was also an accursed thing. Why? Jesus was betrayed with 30 pieces of silver. How many times do you think Jesus could be betrayed with 200 pieces of silver? Check my math if you don’t think God is serious about this by providing so much detail in His Holy book.
200 divided by 30 = 6.66. ‘Nuff said?
The belief of a restored church and the Latter Reign (at east How I understand it) seems to me to be a, “Wedge of Gold” (Joshua 7:21). Truths from God’s word are selectively chosen, taken out of context, put together and fashioned by men as justification to control and divide the people that belong to God. The Lord’s intent is that we all become one in Him, not be divided.
John 17:21
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Here are the two scriptures that are misused:
Haggai 2:8
The glory of this latter house shall be greater than of the former...
James 5:7
Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain. (Not, “Reign”.)
Someone has turned, “Rain” into, “Reign”, and because it is pronounced the same, most people don’t even know the difference. They have introduced, “Death into the Pot” (2 Kings 4:38-41) in that they have allowed the abomination of a, “Proud look” to grow, spread, and become a foundational doctrine for their exclusive fellowship that excludes others from God’s promises and sows discord among brethren. Proverbs 6:16-17. It’s not just in one place or group either. Try Googling, “Latter Reign” and see how prevalent this idea is.
There is reference to reigning with Him in a number of places, but not ruling (Except in the case of the man child in Revelation 12:5.) {As a side note, reading the descriptiveness of Revelation 12:5 and Revelation 14:4 cause me to consider they are the same group...if anyone would like to discuss this.}
Rev 20:4-6 talks about a special group (The first resurrection saints). Their job qualifications were firstly, being beheaded, they didn’t worship the Beast, or it’s image, and lastly didn’t take its mark in either foreheads or hands.
Still speaking about reigning, if you think that the first resurrection already took place, you have to admit this verse disqualifies you from reigning. In addition, while talking about the Beast... if people don’t know or can even agree what the Beast is, how will they know if they have it’s mark or not? If they can’t even identify it?
Many people worry about getting the, “Mark of the Beast”, but by the time John wrote Revelation, he says we already have it.
Revelation 13:16-17 says:
And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
How many is ALL? Why do I think I am exempt? And... who causes ALL to have it?
...Deep thinking here.
Back to reigning...
2 Timothy 2:12 talks about suffering and reigning, but nowhere do I find the terms, “Rule and Reign” together except in churches today... and it’s said a lot.
“Ruling” in the Bible is not shared (Except in the case of the, “Man Child” in Revelation 12, and a man child is not a Woman (a type of the church), nor defiled by women because 1. He is not a woman, and 2. as a child, he is undefiled with women). This also means that the church which produced the man child is not caught up to God and to His throne, and thus the church does not rule or reign with Christ. However, she is already in heaven according to Revelation 12:1.
And don’t even try to to tell me that the Man Child was Jesus, and it was Jesus that was caught up to God and to His throne. There are too many unholy connotations.
A boy cannot be a bride, that is transgenderism. Are we going to swallow this, or do you think that symbolism OK for a church to link to the God who created two separate sexes? Transgenderism shows a complete rejection of God and His sovereignty and when coupled with, “Political correctness”, transgenderism erodes the faith of a Godly society. Again... death in the pot.
Who was this child’s father? If you say anything different than Christ, it means this woman has more than one husband. It would mean she was a harlot. Would Christ marry a harlot?
2 Corinthians 11:2
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
Ephesians 5:31-32
For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Song of Solomon 6:9
My dove, my undefiled is but one...
If we acknowledge that God has children in, “Babylon”, and that their mother, the church where they first experienced salvation is, “Mystery Babylon, the mother of harlots”... and that these people will, “Come out of her, my people” when the call goes out, by switching from their church into ours, this also is an unholy view of God. It suggests that God is a spiritual adulterer by fathering children with a harlot. If you think this through to it’s logical conclusion, we are encouraged to be promiscuous because God is. After all, He wants Christian men to be like him. What would the apostle Paul think of this? Paul said, “Follow me as I follow Christ”. What is wrong with this unholy pagan belief?
I have difficulty believing that those that promote these beliefs know the same God that I do. But, I digress. So, enough about Revelation 12 and the Man Child who was to rule the nations with a rod of iron.
But, I am still talking about the so-called Latter REIGN and a restored church.
Reigning in the Bible concerning the Early Church seems to be solely specified to a group of saints who endured the most painful physical atrocity I could imagine... beheading, but for the witness of Jesus. There are actual YouTube videos of Isis cutting Christians heads off with knives, but I don’t know if these saints qualify to be in that group... it would seems that it depends on when the first resurrection is or was.
Brother Sowders, a man of God from the 1930's, once had a dream of a tree being shaken and all sorts of nasty unclean creatures fell out. The fellowship took this to mean that it would be shaken as a group… and it was. A lot of bad things happened and a lot of nasty people left. But the tree was shaken a second time in the dream and out fell a “silver rain”, the "latter rain movement, promised by God”.
Here’s a question. What was important to God, the tree or the silver rain? Think about it…
something has fallen out. Those little drops of living water aren’t part of that tree anymore. There must be a purpose for the rain, and I don’t think it is to glorify the tree.
These are difficult things to discuss because they all intertwine with the topics of Perfection (meaning works vs.grace), Overcoming, gifts vs. offices, Order, Dominion, Pride, Bride theory, Loving God and your neighbor, Prophecy, and many others that I haven’t listed here I’m sure.
Many of the beliefs that we have held to in the past are starting to crumble under scrutiny as we learn more of God’s nature. Like a house of cards, if just one of our intertwined doctrines do not produce the peaceable fruit of righteousness, the whole thing comes tumbling down... just as the idol of man fell when the stone, cut out of the mountain WITHOUT hands, fell in Daniel chapter 2.
If we cannot love God or our neighbor as Christ did, but estrange others and exclude them from our love and our fellowship through our doctrines, our religion is in vain.
James 1:26
If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
So, like I said, I am a novice when it comes to the topic of a restored church. But to me, the definition of a church is paramount. I choose to define a church as the people, not the structure of organization, geographical location, or the meeting place. I believe this is the only way to see it and still agree with scripture.
There was only one church in the New Testament, not different ones. It was called, “The church at...” such and such a place.Nowadays division is prevalent with hundreds of churches with different names, but did God do this? Perhaps.
God is the divider when things are not right. He did this with the days of creation, and He did it when it became, “Not good” that Adam dwelt alone. I think if things are not right, He breaks them down into their basic components so that they can be built again correctly with a proper foundation. His desire is that we will all become one in Him.
To answer the question, “Will it resemble the church in the book of Acts?
To do that, I would need to agree that people needed to be restored and that the church was not the people, but the system of organization, government or management of the people. I can’t do that, because that is not the definition of God’s church... it may be for man’s, but not for God’s.
Why? Because Christ came to save sinners, people from their sins, not our organizations of management.
